I went to some private school in Australia where people weren’t a traditional “fit” for other private schools and it was some of the most hyperpolarised shit you’ll ever see. Half the grade on reddit and 4chan and the other half on Tumblr.
It was beyond ridiculous. We had this weeb girl from an Italian family whose single mother called her a Japanese name and she would cosplay all the time despite looking heaps obese and would sing at school assemblies random anime theme songs and it would shock everyone.
Also apparently she used to beat up her younger brother she did anime sing along videos on her channel with. This was apparently because she wanted him to be gay and not straight.
Yeah she flipped a table in the middle of class cos a guy adopted from Korea to white parents made fun of her love of cats by referencing the kitten cannon flash game we used to all play and she would freak.
great post! I think you also really highlighted how these awful, misogynistic/misandrist behaviours can create self-fulfilling cycles and just worsen the problem.
As someone who is queer, seeing this gender “war” mostly from the sidelines makes me quite concerned for how heterosexual dating and how to prevent it from spreading to non-heterosexual dating. I think having a shared identity definitely helps out, but it’ll be something to watch out for.
I love this post, it coincides directly with my view of current reality. Algorithmic feeds (both TikTok and Tinder) have been a disaster for the realm of love and I think both sides, men and women have created their own mythos to hide their disillusionment and heartbreak.
The only thing I find to fix it is a real return to reality, the « touch grass » phenomenon and cultivate networks of people. I think the best adjusted and healthier relationships I have seen come from meeting in real life and cultivating a social life based on reality.
My struggle is that while I achieved that when I moved abroad, it is very hard to do if you are in a small city where the demographics don’t fit or if you are an adult out of university. You can very easily fall into the Metro, Boulot, Dodo rythm of life.
I meant this is a beautiful piece hitting at the symptoms, which is a « moloch trap » of sorts between genders where they radicalize and alienate each other by following increasingly untethered ideologies.
But you dont really give any opinion on potential solutions, both on the individual and communal level.
Answering your question, yes kinda. Let’s say you are an average 25 yo man/woman who lives in a city with a few friends. What would be your solution or ideal praxis for those people?
I would suggest getting involved at a church, gym, run club and being more socially adventurous generally and not consuming inflammatory dating "content". Depends where you live, how old you are, your prospects etc.
Considered and intentional use of dating apps is very effective and unfortunately when it comes to dating, it can't be done in a vacuum and so sometimes the web becomes a necessary evil. I met my husband through the internet (over our mutual dissident sensibilities) and our paths would have never crossed in the wild. I have many friends who have met amazing partners through the use of apps but there's definitely an element of luck. I have so much to say on this topic haha, so if you want to talk more specifically, DM me :)
Those are nice answers but I would caveat it as it follows. Your description of dating hellscape for Gen-Z is not only applicable to the US (or Canada which is very close culturally) but applies to all of western Europe too. I am personally living in France where the dating hellscape is the same as you described but the typical solutions of church (non existent if you wanna meet anyone under 70), gym and such don’t work beyond Tier 1/2 cities (Paris or regional capitals). And if you live in a rural area you either met your spouse in school or you are gonna be single for a long time.
All the solutions you have given and the other commenter too seem to be on an individual position and not really on a systemic one. You can talk to girls on the gym but tiktok is full of videos of women on gyms where talking to them is tantamount to harrassment which like it or not seeps into the minds of the women watching those.
I will be sending you a DM as I am interested on your ideas ^^
I have 3 grown children, all married and have children. My daughter is the youngest--she's 23, and her second child is on the way. She's also a graduate of an elite college. I took an active role in helping my children find their mates--not arranging anything, but coaching, encouraging, and praying for them. I wonder if I'm an exception, or typical.
Men have opportunities to improve their lives and become mature adults. Most of them are self-pitying and scapegoat anyone and everything rather than improve their lives.
If one man fails, you could blame him for not working hard enough. But if it's *most* of them, well, maybe people aren't raising young men correctly? (It's in the water, so to speak?) And maybe the women have some blame?
Men blaming women for their problems is just scapegoating. Blame can be placed on the parents but a big chunk of the problem is men not wanting to step up into maturity and responsibility. This includes seeking mental health professionals.
Well written and concise. If I had another chapter I would include the political polarisation which concerns me the most.
Oof great point. That one may have to be a piece all of its own.
I look forward to it, Lantern. One of these days I’m going to stop writing notes and commenting, until I’ve done some work on my posts…
Hmm yes exact same here
I went to some private school in Australia where people weren’t a traditional “fit” for other private schools and it was some of the most hyperpolarised shit you’ll ever see. Half the grade on reddit and 4chan and the other half on Tumblr.
😂 That must have been hilarious
It was beyond ridiculous. We had this weeb girl from an Italian family whose single mother called her a Japanese name and she would cosplay all the time despite looking heaps obese and would sing at school assemblies random anime theme songs and it would shock everyone.
That’s incredible.
You’ve gotta have other stories, yeah?
Also apparently she used to beat up her younger brother she did anime sing along videos on her channel with. This was apparently because she wanted him to be gay and not straight.
Yeah she flipped a table in the middle of class cos a guy adopted from Korea to white parents made fun of her love of cats by referencing the kitten cannon flash game we used to all play and she would freak.
Parents enabling bad behavior is a perpetual issue in society.
I did not think that the mess of the dating world rn could be summarised so well.
great post! I think you also really highlighted how these awful, misogynistic/misandrist behaviours can create self-fulfilling cycles and just worsen the problem.
As someone who is queer, seeing this gender “war” mostly from the sidelines makes me quite concerned for how heterosexual dating and how to prevent it from spreading to non-heterosexual dating. I think having a shared identity definitely helps out, but it’ll be something to watch out for.
I love this post, it coincides directly with my view of current reality. Algorithmic feeds (both TikTok and Tinder) have been a disaster for the realm of love and I think both sides, men and women have created their own mythos to hide their disillusionment and heartbreak.
The only thing I find to fix it is a real return to reality, the « touch grass » phenomenon and cultivate networks of people. I think the best adjusted and healthier relationships I have seen come from meeting in real life and cultivating a social life based on reality.
My struggle is that while I achieved that when I moved abroad, it is very hard to do if you are in a small city where the demographics don’t fit or if you are an adult out of university. You can very easily fall into the Metro, Boulot, Dodo rythm of life.
Any opinions in how to combat this?
Hi! Thank you for the thoughtful comment.
Are you asking how you could meet more potential romantic partners IRL?
Hi, thank you for your comment.
I meant this is a beautiful piece hitting at the symptoms, which is a « moloch trap » of sorts between genders where they radicalize and alienate each other by following increasingly untethered ideologies.
But you dont really give any opinion on potential solutions, both on the individual and communal level.
Answering your question, yes kinda. Let’s say you are an average 25 yo man/woman who lives in a city with a few friends. What would be your solution or ideal praxis for those people?
I would suggest getting involved at a church, gym, run club and being more socially adventurous generally and not consuming inflammatory dating "content". Depends where you live, how old you are, your prospects etc.
Considered and intentional use of dating apps is very effective and unfortunately when it comes to dating, it can't be done in a vacuum and so sometimes the web becomes a necessary evil. I met my husband through the internet (over our mutual dissident sensibilities) and our paths would have never crossed in the wild. I have many friends who have met amazing partners through the use of apps but there's definitely an element of luck. I have so much to say on this topic haha, so if you want to talk more specifically, DM me :)
Those are nice answers but I would caveat it as it follows. Your description of dating hellscape for Gen-Z is not only applicable to the US (or Canada which is very close culturally) but applies to all of western Europe too. I am personally living in France where the dating hellscape is the same as you described but the typical solutions of church (non existent if you wanna meet anyone under 70), gym and such don’t work beyond Tier 1/2 cities (Paris or regional capitals). And if you live in a rural area you either met your spouse in school or you are gonna be single for a long time.
All the solutions you have given and the other commenter too seem to be on an individual position and not really on a systemic one. You can talk to girls on the gym but tiktok is full of videos of women on gyms where talking to them is tantamount to harrassment which like it or not seeps into the minds of the women watching those.
I will be sending you a DM as I am interested on your ideas ^^
Moving from the countryside to the city is a venerable tradition. It's okay and often necessary to move.
Do Meetup groups. Book groups, movie groups, cooking clubs etc.
Absolutely adore the artwork on this and it had a real effect so I shared on insta
What if the manosphere is a symptom rather than a cause?
Women are becoming extremely shallow and elitist about looks and height. This is well documented. Men are just adopting coping mechanisms to it.
I have 3 grown children, all married and have children. My daughter is the youngest--she's 23, and her second child is on the way. She's also a graduate of an elite college. I took an active role in helping my children find their mates--not arranging anything, but coaching, encouraging, and praying for them. I wonder if I'm an exception, or typical.
Sorry but men are failing and it’s mostly of their own doing.
Bit harsh Phil.
Men have opportunities to improve their lives and become mature adults. Most of them are self-pitying and scapegoat anyone and everything rather than improve their lives.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
GenZ women’s standards for good looks and height have become extremely shallow and elitist. How is it men’s own doing?
Thinking the world owes you. The world doesn't owe you shit.
If one man fails, you could blame him for not working hard enough. But if it's *most* of them, well, maybe people aren't raising young men correctly? (It's in the water, so to speak?) And maybe the women have some blame?
Men blaming women for their problems is just scapegoating. Blame can be placed on the parents but a big chunk of the problem is men not wanting to step up into maturity and responsibility. This includes seeking mental health professionals.
https://substack.com/@gortinshyver/note/c-85052720